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Libertarian Challange

I consider myself to be a right on libertarian. People should have the freedom to take responsibility for their own lives and if they fuck it up; tough.
But a few years ago I spent some time visiting a NICU unit, where premature babies are coaxed into life. Half the parents were nice people, showing that shit happens to nice people. The other half were scum. Their babies were in NICU because they took drugs, drank, generally fucked about. I remember one father who was seen as a model parent because he spent all day with his child: maybe the tattoo "I hate Jews" on the back of his hand stopped him getting a job, I don't know, I'm only guessing.
There was one baby who screamed for 24 hours a day, because, I was told, she was experiencing withdrawal from the heroin her mother took through out the pregnancy. The family unit, feckless mum and dad and poor baby were allocated a private room so social services could assess them.
My thoughts were that both of them should be assessed with the rough end of a baseball bat and the child rescued from what was obviously going to be a life of grime. But that is illiberal, so what is the correct response?


100% agreement with your sentiments. Problem is you need someone to decide who the messed up parents are and you have to trust someone to decide. *You* can see who they are according to *your* judgements, problem is in the end some social worker will decide and we've seen in the past just how often they mess up. I'm afraid I can't answer your question "can you be a libertarian and allow the state to make decisions like that"? It's actually the same reason I can't agree with the death penalty. I just don't trust the state to have that power. But you know what I'd do to anyone I found harming me or mine though.

Hmmm...I think someone needs to pay a visit to a preemie ward...

*I* had special involvement in that because MY daughter was a preemie...and she was the LUCKY one inasfar as not having to go through withdrawal or have surgeries or infections. However, I did see how some preemies were abandoned by their parents because of various reasons...drugs being one of them.

go through a preemie ward and find out abut the innocents there. It will break your heart.

Well, a first step to take is to HELP other libertarians see the wisdom of your view... the concept that pre-maturely born children (not to exclude other children) have certain human rights, and selfish, drug-addicted parents are permitted to do the right thing and sign away their 'rights' under a benign law, as they have already abandoned their actual rights by abandoning their selves to the high...

What goes round comes round. Suggesting: help redraw the map of 'libertarian' and help enroll others in your vision!

Hard cases make bad laws, of course.

But in my view, the state should not have the power, under any circumstances, to remove children from their families against the wishes of the parents.

There are just too many examples now, of terrible injustice being caused by the existence of these powers.

The near-certainty of cock-ups and later, abuse in so-called "care", overrides any possible good that could in theory be done.

The state is not your friend. Ever.

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